I've started this topic to pull out some the crap that has been hiding under the porch called cult and stake them through their boring, poorly made, overated hearts.  What cult films do you consider classic and great cult and which ones are just vile worthless waste of film crap hiding under the lable "Cult".  Let's see, this should interesting.

And just so you know -- I'm not down on cult films, for example, I love:

Rocky Horror Picture Show

Repo Man

The Warriors

Donnie Darko

The Secretary

Freaks

Brazil

 and others, but I do want to expose the ones that give cult a bad name

I've already butchered Caligula in another post so the next one I'll drag out to be skewered is:

And I know I'll hear about:

ERASERHEAD -- I love dark brooding atmosphere -- but I still need a movie to go along with it and Lynch didn't provide one.  Smells like rotten fetus creature in this one.  I say stake this beast.

Your take:  crap or cult?

Re: your list, I've seen uh....Donnie Darko.  I have a copy of Rocky Horror, I just havent watched it yet, but I think i'm going to like it.

Now then:

Cult:  A lot of what I consider "cult" is poorly made.  I freely admit that.  But I actually like laughing at how unbelievably hilarious they are and love them for that.  So thus I submit for your approval:

Troll 2  (Yeah, I'm pulling out the big guns.)

Dracula Vs. Frankenstein (You know its good when you have no idea what you're watching and you're laughing at it WHILE ITS ON MUTE.)

Bubba Ho-Tep (I don't think its possible to get more cult in terms of reason horror movies)

May (Its becoming mainstream-esque, but Lucky McKee is still very cult.)

Silent Night, Deadly Night (no explanation necessary)

Sleepaway Camp (YEAH THATS RIGHT!  RAIN THE HATE DOWN UPON ME!  )

Crap:

Caligula, as we've previously mentioned.

FearDotCom, which for a long time was my least favorite movie of all time,

and Masters of Horror:  Dream Cruise (I watched it on dvd.  All excruciating 90 minutes of it uncut.  I wish that fate on no one.  Want a fun visual?  Imagine the level of anger in me increasing as the movie neared the 60 minute mark on the case and then skyrocketing as the movie rumbled on past it.)

Well i encouraged this, but I don't think i've seen a bad movie deemed "cult classic" the crappy ones you've mentioned I've never see

some of my fave movies are cult classics

RHPS

A clockwork orange

Freddy got fingered (I don't even know if this counts)

pulp fiction

I love the warriors

and I don't know if death becomes her counts but I totally think it should

Well I dunno if Death Becomes Her is a cult classic, but it is a damn good movie...and clockwork Orange is my all time favorite movie....

And I should mention I avoid the really really bad usually.  It was really hard to come up with the ones I did.

I did see Ultraviolet in theater though.  I've watched it multiple times since then.  Its just soooo bad its good.  I love that movie far far more than I should.

Feardotcom was almost certainly the worst horror movie I've ever seen (I didn't walk out of it, but I sure as Hell should have).  It might possibly be the worst movie overall that I've seen ever (I can't seem to think of any that I can remember being worse).  It struck me as being a poor knock-off of The Ring.  People should be punished for creating pitiful rip-offs like that.

House of the Dead was a close second.  Uwe Boll should be skinned, dipped in vinegar, rolled in salt, floured, lightly deep-fried, and then fed to some fire ants.  How does he keep finding work?

Pink Floyd's The Wall is considered something of a cult classic around here even though it's a tad over-rated (I'm sure it's a tad less horribly boring and depressing if you're on some hallucinogenic).

That's EXACTLY how I feel about Feardotcom and was the first thought that went through my head the moment it was over.  It was almost to the point where I wondered how I and other people would feel about it if The Ring had never been released.  I'd probably still find it extremely boring, but I actually think I might have hated it less then.

And as for Uwe, he keeps finding work by basically writing and producing and financing his own films.  In other words, if you wanted him to stop you probably would have to do all those things you mentioned.

You guys seem to have a very broad definition of "cult." A Clockwork Orange was very well known at the time it was released (it received 4 Academy Award nominations, including Best Picture); Pulp Fiction even more so (with 7 nominations). My idea of a cult movie includes the notion of being relatively unknown and uncelebrated by the culture at large. The Rocky Horror Picture Show was a true cult movie--although maybe it couldn't be considered one anymore--as was Led Zeppelin's Song Remains the Same. In the field of horror, any early Craven, Hooper, or Romero work would count alongside those two, since horror was a decidedly niche genre until Halloween broke it out of its shell. But Clockwork Orange? Pulp Fiction? You might as well call "The Godfather" a cult movie,  imo.

I completely agree with you on this one. My idea of a "cult film" is a relatively unknown film with a small number of enthusiastic fans. It is possible (and this happens often) that a cult film will gain general popularity to the point that it can not really be called a cult film anymore... Rocky Horror is a perfect example... it was just the weirdos that dressed up in costume and went to the midnight movie that knew about it for the longest time... and it was really these folks that elevated the film to the point where it is today.

On the original topic of this thread, I too get annoyed with a film is heralded as a "cult classic" when the fact is it just stinks. Lots of the small independent producers try to peg their films as "instant cult classics" which means, in essence, that they already know that it will not be widely accepted and appreciated, so they are going for "cult status" right out of the gate. Funny.

Sleepaway camp is one of my favorite examples of a cult film that is still in that realm after so many years. The fans of this film can be extremely passionate and there are entire websites devoted to it... but if you ask people at work or somewhere it is difficult to find anyone who has ever heard of it...

My current favorite cult (definitely NOT crap) film is "The Dead Next Door"... awesome film that even many horror fans have never heard of... but for those that know and like it they REALLY like it (like me...)

I have heard of it and want to see it badly.  And I know i dont really consider clockwork orange cult, but it is my favorite movie so I had to respond to its mention.

Nobody's gonna call me out for Troll 2, eh?  It's only a card-carrying stalwart of the IMDB worst 100 movies of all time list.  Come on, someone either fess up or take me on.  lol

I think A Clockwork Orange and Pulp Fiction are exceptions to the rule. It's all the same subculture, even if they did well in the box offices.

since no one will defend that piece of worthless afterbirth called Eraserhead, I thereby stake it out in the sunlight with Caligula to shrivel into nothingness.

Next I have my sights set on "I Spit on Your Grave"--worthless piece of shit of a movie.  Not only does it exploit rape ala a throwback to the "roughies"-- it does it poorly-very poorly.  bad story--bad acting--bad-bad-bad.  Right up there with Lipstick and many shitty 70s flicks in terms of how not to film rape.  This movie makes the Death Wish movies look like oscar quality stuff.  Save your time on this crap and just watch "Dirty Harry" movies.  What do you think cult or crap?

Now I'll promote a Cult movie I like:

Hotel New Hampshire

adapted from John Irving' s book and starring Jodie Foster, Rob Lowe, Natassia Kinski, Beau Bridges, Paul McCrane it is a magnificent little movie that it seems not many have seen.  Deals with death, rape, incest, homosexuality, suicide, and mental illness--all in a delightful,witty, and downright charming way..  Has to be seen to be appreciated.  Directed by Tony Richardson who mostly did TV stuff.  His other good Theater release was the Border, another uderated gem with Jack Nicholson (one of his better roles) and Harvey Keitel.  If you have not seen Hotel New Hampshire--please check it out-- it can make you laugh, disturb you, and make you cry at the same time.  What do you think: cult or crap.

Can this thread be moved to the "Cult" section, Czar?

Fine I will stick up for Eraserhead. I would rather watch that than any movie that comes out today. It's a surreal film and I think it operates on a different level than most films. It's not structured the same as most films. It reminded me of an old silent german film or something. I love it. But I'm just a huge Lynch fan, hell I even like Dune (I know that will get me slammed for sure.) As far as  movies I like that are considered cult: Body Melt, Street Trash, Deadbeat at Dawn, Combat Shock, I drink your blood, All 3 Basket case films, Meet the Feebles, Cannibal Holocaust, Redneck Zombies, Beware Children at play, Eaten Alive, Gore Gore Girls . As far as overated cult films, I would have to say Donnie Darko, The Devil's Rejects (I know I will be burned at the stake for that, but I thought it was lame.), Death Proof (that was complete shit), pretty much any horror film remake, Crash (the David Cronenberg movie, I did'nt care for that), I'm sure I'm forgetting others, oh well. Now keep in mind these are my opinions, and I'm not trying to dictate to anyone otherwise. Now let the thrashings begin.

THANK YOU. (I may not think it was COMPLETE but I still definitely dont understand the people who think it was better than Planet Terror)  I still think, weirdly, that if they'd flipped the order, I'd feel far better about Death Proof than I do.  Rather be taken out with a bang (Planet Terror) than Death Proof's talky slow-burn.

Yeah it had it's moments, but then it took a nose dive into shit. Tarantino should have approached it differently and left his typical ranting and raving dialogue out of the film, and made me actually care about the main protagonists in the film or kill them off like he did the first batch. I felt like he forgot that it was a tribute to grindhouse cinema.

 I loved Cronenberg's Crash-- but I look at it as a turn-on type movie--like porn.  Just me again.  Clank my way Holly--Let me help you with those braces Rosanna-- I find metal sexy.

 I love Lynch too and I like Dune--not anywhere near the level of the books, but as a stand alone sci-fi flick, Dune's alright.  But I get Lynch's subtle message sending-- I love Lost Highway, Blue Velvet and even Twin Peaks.  I think the Elephant Man is a masterpiece of film-making-- but Eraserhead?  Erase not the head--but all of it.  I could have liked it if it had been over in ten minutes--maybe fifteen-- but certainly not enough there for anymore.  Just no meat there no matter how hard I looked.  I've watched it several times and everytime it left me with , "that's it?!!!"

I like Planet Terror better--easily, but I still liked Death Proof as well.  I loved Russell in that role as "Stuntman mike"  -- laughed my ass off when he became a sissy at the end.  Love the car chase--almost twenty minutes of joy for an old muscle car boy like me.  And the part where he creams the first set of girls--one of my favorite scenes to run in slo-mo for the unawares-- the bouncing leg--the sheared off face--great stuff.  And like his other flicks-- I love Tarentino's dialogue.  I will agree that Planet Terror is better, but seriously Doc Menard--after some of the stuff you rattled off--I drink your Blood, Gore Gore Girls, Eaten Alive????-- we obviously disagree on the definition of shit.

Hey bro, one man's trash is another's treasure. I personally lean more towards the "trash". I can't stand the way horror films are made today. It's a bunch of cgi, digital dogshit. So what if the films I mentioned aren't what some people consider great, but at least they had heart, and soul (yeah I said soul). I wish the old days of guerilla film making would come back. Small budgets, big ambition. Our society is glossy and everybody wants "realism" and so now all of the movies made reflect that.  I hate how all the horror movie classics  I loved the first time around are being remade into souless, garbage. Horror movies are dying and I now have to resort to going to the local independent cinema and watch midnight showings of films that have come and gone, or rent and buy films of yesterday. At least Troma is still making idependent films. I mean I'm a Troma fan so that should give you some insight as to the taste I have.

HEY HEY HEY!

No self-bashing Troma fan taste!  That's hitting me below the belt.  (Don't ask me how much I spent at the Troma table at the con.  Just don't.)  It's a good thing Troma still exists and in some ways its good that it has under its own terms.  In fact, the fact that we have...say...Synapse films, Blue Underground, and (recently) Dimension Extreme, is because Troma proves its still possible.  Dimension Extreme basically exists SOLELY to put out the movies no one else will touch with a more of a mainstream tone.  In fact, I'd go so far as to say Dimension Extreme is the legitimate version of Troma (which probably explains why I like BOTH imprints so much and don't want either one to change.  Dimension Extreme can handle big budget, Troma can handle true independent spirit.).

And as for realism, that's not the issue.  The issue is that Hostel, Saw, and Rob Zombies films are popular (as I think they should be).  But, just like ANY other movie, hollywood will beat stuff into the ground.  Look back over the history of horror.  Slasher gets released, hollywood becomes slasher machine.  Teen horror returns, hollywood does that too.  Creature Features like Alien and Jaws come out, and out come the copies.  The problem is they want lightning to strike twice without starting their own new storm.  In fact the reason those three movies were succesful is BECAUSE they were different.  Repeatedly beating the dead horse they created won't do any good for what comes after.

There are still good films, the problem is the BIG studios generally won't release them theatrically so you have to find them yourself.  The vast majority of "good" horror is not in theaters anymore.  It's like the cycle spun back on itself from when VHS was horror's biggest assist.  Now it's DVD (whether that's good or not is debatable).

I agree btw, that Donnie Darko is massively overrated.  Good movie, but way overrated.  And I should mention my biggest beef with death proof is what you brought up.  Cut about half the dialogue before Stuntman Mike whoops some ass, and you got yourself a decent flick.  I also disagree with the generalization on horror remakes (granted most are unnecessary, but generalizations get one into trouble), and I want to see Crash badly as I've heard nothing but good things about how Cronenberg sexualized the car crashes.

Hey Bro-- we're allowed our own tastes--Not trying to oppress your artistic preferences--just defending Death Proof. 

I'm a child of the drive-in (southern versions of grindhouses).  All the exploitation films (Blacula--which I love), the biker movies  (remember when the Hells Angels went to 'Nam), the Billy Jack flicks, the awful--but good martial arts flicks, the car movies like Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry, and yes the horror, crappy and good. 

Halloween and the original NOTLD--that's the way I think independent  low budget films should be made--great storytelling with excellent directing and a knowledge of what horror is and how to acheive it. 

I can't like something just for it's weirdness or it's gore no matter how much the director wants it to be good or no matter how hard he tried.  Throwing a bunch of blood at the screen just doesn't cut it if the actors can't act and the director can't direct. 

I mentioned The Undertaker and His Pals in another post somewhere--very low budget with very bad acting-- but besides the gore, you could tell that the director had some quirky ideas and , soul, as you'd put it--like the Billy Jack films.  I defend the Undertaker and his Pals every chance I get. And it is probably shit to alot of folks.  

Hell--Phantasm is another example of good movies being made with low budget as is Texas Chainsaw Massacre--Hell, I even like Maniac and Torso. 

I never hold a low budget or cheesy special effects against a movie-- but I will hold an awful script and lousy directing and piss-poor acting against them all--high or low budget.

And the only recent remake I liked was Dawn of the Dead-- I hated the fog and Zombie's Halloween. And I like House of 1000 corpses far more than Devil's rejects, which I've found is a big dividing line. I don't think any of the American remakes of Japanese films like the grudge or ring or eye or dark water did anything for us as viewers that the originals didn't do on half the budget.

And the stuff I consider trash like the guniea pig movies are just shockers like faces of death-- I do on the other hand like Battle Royale, Vs and even Ichi (though I try not to)

So I agree with you and I don't agree with you, but such is life.  We'll just call off the wedding and try to be friends.

 For you Cryp--forgotten song of the eighties:

Warm Leatherette by The Normal

See the breaking glass
In the underpass
See the breaking glass
In the underpass
Warm leatherette

Hear the crushing steel
Feel the steering wheel
Hear the crushing steel
Feel the steering wheel

Warm leatherette

Warm leatherette

Warm leatherette
Melts on your burning flesh
You can see your reflection
In the luminescent dash

Warm leatherette

A tear of petrol
Is in your eye
The hand brake
Penetrates your thigh
Quick - Let's make love
Before you die

On warm leatherette
Warm leatherette

Warm leatherette
Warm leatherette
Warm leatherette

Join the car crash set

We have more in common than you think.  I mean, Troma has a soul to it for me, thats why I like it, but most direct-to-dvd piles of dung are just pure rubbish.  Similarly, I agree most remakes are unnecessary, and while I like The Ring remake, I'm not crazy enough to think it was better than the original (for any remake really for that matter, no matter how good it is since a remake is kinda unoriginal by definition.)

I'm only 23, but I know what Drive-ins were.  I wish we had them.  lol.

And while I love Devil's Rejects, I dont like it as a horror movie, I like it as a more action-y movie.  I'm sorry, it's not horror.

So, don't think I'm just automatically trashing a viewpoint...I'm not trying to.  I'm just saying don't give up on horror now just because theatrical stuff hasnt been good, there's other stuff too.

I wasn't trying to call the films I like "trash" I was just saying that because that is what people often call the films I happen to like. Look, I do like some of the films that have come out recently, but they are just far and few between. I liked House of 1,000 Corpses, both Hostel 1 & 2, Slither, High Tension, Midnight Meat Train (I saw it at a sleazy dollar theater! LOL), and Black Sheep. So I know there are some films trying to bring something worth while to the screen, but I will not stick up for horror movie remakes, not after the TCM remake. I remember seeing that in the theaters and watching one of my all time favorites be reduced to a steaming pile. I feel we need new ideas not remake films that were already awesome. I wasn't very impressed with the Dawn of the Dead remake, Zach Snider should stick to making retarded adaptions of comic books. Maybe I have given up prematurely, or maybe I've come to my senses. I do enjoy discussing this issue with actual horror fans that's for sure. Thanks for your thoughts and feedback.

You.  Rule.

If you think that rules you should have smelled the place! I swear only bums and perverts show up there! It was very sticky! I saw Grindhouse there and thought it was a tad more appropriate enviroment than a normal theater. They only showed Midnight Meat train there that one day, I guess Lionsgate didn't want the average movie going public to see that film.

 As do I and thanks for yours--I have found, to be sure, that this site contains probably the best crowd I've found to discuss Horror movies with--the love of the genre is evident in almost every post and folks know what what they're talking about. -kudos to you all.

"Michael Roooooooooooow the boat ashore . . . . . .

Enjoy in all it's most awful, awful goodness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2IF4QaQ0Vg&feature=related

Well yeah.  Lionsgate tore the film apart.  Corporate politics during a changeover or something.  Led the movie to get shuffled around on release dates then dumped into just over 100 dollar theatres for one week.  I think dvds in october.  It was quite sad really.  I'm glad at least one person saw it.

yeah the trailer for Midnight meat train looked pretty damn good--now just waiting for DVD

Andy Warhol's Dracula was campy and fun (IMHO).  I also enjoyed Roman Polanski's "Fearless Vampire Killers" with Sharon Tate (his wife who was murdered by the Manson clan).

Thanks Pumpboy - I love this kind of over the top gorefest.

I always thought " cult classic " meant this movie didn't do jack s#@t at the box office! Doesn't mean it's a bad movie, though most of them are. Sorta like how horror fans can get in to the Evil Dead trilogy and Shawn of the Dead where as most viewers would think they were just plain stupid. In my opinion, " The Blair Witch Project " is the crappiest of all the cult films to the average viewer. Out right poo. However, even people who hate it have to admire the brilliance of the film makers. To think that movie has grossed over 250 million and they made it for what? 30 grand?! Amazing. Give those guys back their Handy Cams because their flicks with budgets are far worse than Blair Witch. The film created a new genre. The one where everybody, including JJ Abrams, wants to shoot a movie with a camcorder! I call it the motion sickness genre! All in all, cult and crap go hand in hand. It depends on the viewer.

Once again, if you're going to admit a film that grossed 250 mil into the category of "cult films," then you might as well let The Godfather in, too.

eventhough it did well at the box office, I've always thought Apocalypse Now was a cult film.  If my memory is not failing me,  Deerhunter, too.  Weird.

Well there's a thread in the main menu Cult Films in which a discussion going on on what defines a "cult" film...I think its a pretty broad definition personally, but i'd tend to agree with...hang on *scrolls* Pastor of Muppets that it had to be something that bombed at the box office

yeah I know they're not cult-- they just have that feel.

Nah I know what you mean I didnt mean to shit on your opinion. People my age give back blank stares when I mention Deerhunter. They only know De Niro from *gasp* Meet the Parents and Meet the Fucking Twats.

Apocalypse Now is awesome. They just dont do that kinda shit anymore, put a camera on a drunk actor and let him punch a mirror. 70's and 80's were a delicious time for cinema. 00's are like watered down liquor by comparison.

 I don't think I'd ever seen Walken before that movie-- he was great in that movie.

I don't know how old you guys are but I'm in my 30's and I like both those movies, well not so much Deerhunter, but Apocalypse Now is actually one of my favorite films of all time. I also prefer Combat Shock over Deerhunter. I know that is a bold statement but I love that film.

I'm 29. Apocalypse Now fucking rocks. Those poor bastards in the stairs lmao

Don't know Combat Shock, gonna have to go IMDb that one...

I just have to say that I'm with pumpboy on Eraserhead, I'm just not into it. There are plenty of avant-garde, more abstract films that I enjoy immensely, this just isn't one of them.

Crypticpsych, Sleepaway Camp is one of my favorites! It's fun, you care about the characters, and what an ending!

I would also like to defend I Spit On Your Grave, I think it has a lot of value as a cinematic piece. I don't think its purpose is to entertain, thrill, or exploit. The director made the film after witnessing the aftermath of a brutal rape and seeing first-hand the condition the victim was in, an experience that opened his eyes to something he could never fully relate to. I think the admittedly beyond graphic portrayal of the main character's rapes was an attempt to really translate to the viewer how horrific the experience is, forcing the viewer to be subjected to an extended period of extreme discomfort without even a music score to distract, there's nothing titillating or exciting about it. As a woman, I saw the rest of the film as a way to play out a deeply disturbed but understandable revenge fantasy in an attempt to match the depraved and repulsive original act. Of course this is a male director's interpretation of what a woman might fantasize in seeking retribution, and so there are certainly flaws, but I think this film attempts to speak more to a male audience with the thinking that women don't need any visual assistance to relate to the horror; I'd say it is on most women's list as a number one fear. In conclusion, while I don't think this movie is for everyone and its extreme nature ends up limiting its impact for many, I do think it is a valid contribution to a conversation on gender issues, particularly at the time of its release.